Man of action: The Professor John Kotter interview
Posted by Mike Levy in Leadership on Thu, 07/23/2009 - 16:24
- Kotter is author of such best sellers as 'Leading Change' and 'Our Iceberg is Melting'
- Kotter recently started a company to explore how his ideas about leadership can be spread globally
- Leadership happens at all levels and the job of trainers and educators is to help them become more aware of their role
Mike Levy talks to Professor John Kotter, a man recognised as one of the world's top authorities on leadership and change, about building better leaders, and the role of trainers and educators in this.
John Kotter is a man of action. This professor at Harvard Business School, recognised by many as the world’s top authority on leadership and change, is not interested in ideas and information for their own sake. He is passionate about leadership and strives to see his ideas put into practice. Academic theories are not enough for him - “I am not interested in shovelling information for its own sake,” says Kotter.
Kotter is the author of such best sellers as 'Leading Change' (1996) and 'Our Iceberg is Melting' (2006). They are all ‘how to do it’ works exemplified by Kotter’s famous '8-step change model'. The first of his steps, 'create urgency' is the theme of his most recent work, 'A Sense of Urgency', a worldwide best seller.
He is now turning his attention to ‘buy-ins’. Says Kotter: “Good ideas don’t stand up on their own, they need support. We have all experienced great ideas – simple and grand – that have got shot down in public, or behind our backs.” How good ideas get bought in to an organisation is the subject of his next book. It will continue his lifelong theme of how change happens – and how to implement it. “I always want my books to be practical tools to help people and organisations. They are used by people in small businesses to those running armies and even countries. Everyone is interested in doing things in new and better ways.”
Putting ideas about change and leadership into action is clearly close to his heart. It is also close to the heart of his Harvard MBA wife and a former Microsoft executive. They have recently started a company to explore how Kotter’s ideas about leadership (which have been building for 30 or more years) can be spread globally.
“My vision is that millions will be leading and billions will benefit,” says Kotter. This truly grand vision stems from Kotter’s belief that leadership should spread throughout an organisation – it is not just for the people at the top of the pyramid. “There is no question that compared to, say, 25 years ago people at middle and lower levels within organisations regard themselves as providing leadership. It is no longer a question of what those big people in big jobs do. As the rate of change keeps rising and the volatility of events becomes more active, the needs of leadership, the most powerful force in times of change, has risen too.”
A rapidly changing world
There is an urgent need, says Kotter to provide high quality leaders who can meet the challenges of a rapidly changing world – one which has to respond to the volatilities and unstoppable forces brought about by globalisation and technology.
But how do we achieve better leaders at all levels? Kotter is damning about the way some educational institutions respond to the need. “They slap the word ‘leadership’ on every old course they have. So, Marketing becomes Marketing Leadership.” Kotter is clearly impatient with this educational tokenism. “The book I am now working on tells the story of an individual, the hero of my story, who does not think of himself as a leader. Yet he steps up to the plate in his organisation and is just that, without the label.” Kotter’s point is that leadership happens at all levels and the job of trainers and educators is to help them become more aware of their role.
That leadership happens (or should happen) at all levels is one thing, but shouldn’t we focus on the role of followers? Isn’t it still about managing your boss? Kotter is dismissive: “I have listened to the arguments about ‘followership’ but I’m not convinced that good followers are simply passive agents. When you look at the word ‘leader’ what do you think of? Most people when asked that question will think of world leaders or characters from history such as Winston Churchill or the heads of business hierarchies. The number who say that ‘we need more leaders at all levels’ is tiny. We need to convince people that society will not work well in the kind of world now being developed unless more people see it as part of their role in life to be a leader. It is a huge challenge. Talking about ‘followership’ just makes this process more difficult”.
Time for action
Why aren’t people at all levels seeing themselves as leaders within their own context? Kotter believes that people just don’t see leadership as part of their role. He says that the skills we see in many leaders, those that have enabled them to climb the greasy pole of power, are not the ones to emulate. “Many leaders may be wonderful people but the path they have taken is very different to what I mean by leadership,” observes Kotter. “I think we must begin to educate people about leadership roles in schools – well before people go to university or business colleges.” Kotter also believes in a very active role for the training and coaching industry. “Those who know about my view of leadership must make themselves more visible. How many times on business programmes on TV do you hear the arguments we are talking about here? Very rare.”
Kotter is convinced that his ‘how to do it’ ideas in relation to leadership are not difficult to implement. “I know when I’m signing books to large audiences there are so many who say that they used my '8-stage change model' and it has worked," he explains. "These are people who run very small businesses, run schools or churches.”
For Kotter change and leadership are not subjects only for rarefied academic debate – he believes that the tools are out there – proven and practical. In this volatile world, the time for words are over, it is now a time for action.
For more information on Kotter and his work see http://www.johnkotter.com
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Servant Leadership is the Primary Catalyst!
John has some great methodology. I must add that the foundation of good, effective leadership is when a leader is a servant first. When the leader sees their role as being here to be a good steward and to help others grow and develop properly, then this lays the proper foundation. Rather than a method, SL is about the leader's heart, motivation and their consequential outflowing actions. Apart from this a leader (and the organization) will not reach their full potential, and likely neither will their people. The methods by themselves may produce some result, but will be lacking without the proper core motivation.
Is this a narrow viewpoint? Perhaps, and forgive me if this sounds arrogant, but I believe SL is the correct and most effective leadership element toward leading change in the long run.
Servant leadership - a bit fuzzy?
Hi Tery,
You make some interesting points. Servant leadership is certainly getting a lot of praise at the moment and I'm a big fan of Ken Blanchard, who is a huge supporter of servant leadership.
But my concern is that SL is still a little underdeveloped as a concept. I'm not sure there is even consistency in the way that it has been developed - the way that Fons Trompenaars describes it is different from the way that Ken does, for instance.
Leadership Change - Is there an Urgency?
Kotter's work is a gem. But, even a man of his credentials cannot change a unchangeable leader. I can't wait for his book on "buy-Ins" to see where I went wrong in driving the "urgency" for change.
Leadeship has become the most talked about "blame" word associated with the recent economic turmoil. And, at the centre of it all is not about underperformance or missed opportunities. Quite the contrary, the watercooler gossip is on the qualities (lack of it) of integrity, honesty and decency. Was there leadership at AIG when bonuses were paid-out from taxpayers' hard earned bailout monies. How about the those all level leaders who sold products that led to the sub-prime crisis. Did they have a choice or were they innocently playing the game to instant riches.
The way things have turned out invokes much apprehension nowadays whenever someone mentions words like Quick, Fast, Urgent, Speed. It smells of desperation, greed, unethics and unscrupulous financial wizards and preying consultants. I hope Kotter's interpretation of urgency is far from what has maimed us with lightning speed. He speaks of, in a rapidly changing world, having to respond to the volatilities and unstoppable forces brought about by globalisation and technology.
I think this is where, we need to draw the line and change. Before we dash off the blocks, let's pause to think for a moment to allign what is it we are chasing after. Perhaps, it would be good for both leadership and followership to start reflecting the very basis of the need for such volatility and unstoppable forces?. I mean this is not some meteorite that is on the collision path to destroy earth?.
Why must globalisation turn its ugly effects until it impacts environmental degration, war, and poverty. Can leadership accomodate a world of political, socio-economic and trade relations based on a policy of inclusiveness and mutual sustainence. At the business and corporate level, can leadership embrace the same - concept of values based leadership that consumes the spirit of humility and willingness to serve, engage, inspire and sweat - as they would being one of them.
We have many world class examples on leadership and how best to lead people. Yet, we still find scores of people on the receiving end of abusive and bad leadership. I know leadership concerns the led, yet how many leaders ever bother to listen to their voices. I have come across all sorts of leadership model (including Quiet!). I support Terryt that we need to introduce a cult-like servant model in transforming the sorry state of current leadership.
As Kotter says, we do need a sense of urgency - to create leaders who can demonstrate humility, passion, empathetic listening in championing the cause and interest of all stakeholders - Individual, Teams, Majority and Minority, Underpriviledged and Marginalised - without compromising values and moral conscience.
Methods vs. Being
I'm not familiar with Fons Trompenaars (who I beleive writes in Dutch) and his pronouncements on SL. Blanchard, Covey, Greenleaf, Autry, Block, Wheatley, Senge, DePree, Spears, Keith and Jesus, however, I am familiar with. With them, the core idea is all pretty much the same, and it is the core that is important - not the specific methods employed. In fact, using a mere methodology to approach SL is problematic in my view. It can result in (if I may paraphrase a famous book), "Having a form . . . but denying the power thereof."
With that said, in our own behavior change facilitation business, we have people practice methods first in order to achieve external change which then often results in a shift in attitudes. But ultimately, a genuine servant leader must possess the internal aspect of being a real servant. ("Love your neighbor" isn't a method; it's about being.)